Penny Newman

Penny Newman

Center for Community Action and Environmental Justice, Executive Director

Amanda: Introduce yourself.

Penny: I’m Penny Newman I’m the executive director here at the Center for Community Action and Environmental Justice. My background is in mythology with an emphasis in neuropathology and I haven’t been in the field for many years.

Amanda: Great. So what made you decide to get involved in activism and just in general?

Penny: Well it wasn’t a real decision that I made where I sat down and decided this is what I wanted to do with my life it was really out of self-defense. I found myself and my family in a situation where we were being exposed to toxic chemicals and the agencies were actually exposing us. We live near the string fellow acid pits which is California’s top priority super fund sites. It was one of the first sites put on the federal list once the super fund was passed, which means it’s the worse of the worse in the nation. And we found that a lot releases from the site got into the air, surface runoff from the site, and groundwater contamination had affected our community pretty drastically. And it was that revelation that we had been exposed to chemicals the agencies in charge knew about it and nobody was responding to us and taking our safety and health into account and that’s when myself and some of the other women in the community decided it was time for us to step forward and do something about it cause nobody else was.

Anthony: What’re some difficulties you’ve come across in your career?

Penny: Oh boy, m. Well I think when we started organizing to try and first understand what was going on, this is back in 1978. The theory on toxic chemicals was that if you diluted it then it wasn’t a problem and exposing people to small amounts or what they considered small amounts was okay. And the water board senate water regulatory control board had a theory that once it was passed 200 ft it basically cleansed itself by running through the rocks. It seems pretty stupid, that was the running theory. And so as the water board during heavy rains in Southern California the site which is the series of pit stops and lagoons elevated in a box canyon above our community began to fill up and overflow so the water board was topping the water from the lower ponds up to the top once trying to keep it in motion I guess or to keep it under control. They finally reached a point where they released a million gallons to flow through pyrite creek which is a just little dirt wash that runs through the community. The elementary school is about a quarter of a mile down below and so for a lot of, , during that time period they didn’t bother to tell anybody in the community what was happening. And so I was sending my kids off to school without any knowledge that this was going on. They were playing in the puddles splashing around like all kids do. They were making beards out of the foam and becoming toxic snowmen. And never in a million years would I believe or even think that the State would release deadly chemicals into my community. So when I found out, when the rest of the families found out what was happening we got pretty shocked and I think it took quite a while one of the challenges was to come to grips with the fact that the agencies we all look to protect us were actually the ones putting us in harm’s way. So it was, that was a huge, huge, obstacle to overcome. And so as we began researching, reading the reports, trying to dissect what the reports were saying, we began to understand that some common sense was really missing here. When you see that there is DDT in that mix we knew it was banned and yet here it was flowing through our community. You saw lead, we knew lead was not something you should be exposed to. When we saw these things we knew that our kids should not be exposed to them. And so we also realize that if companies were paying extra money to take their chemical waste to a special place then it should not be flowing through the community. And so we began in trying to figure out the big, process and how the system works. And you know we really believed if we got all our facts together and presented it to the decision makers they’d step forward to do the right thing. And what we discovered was that this isn’t the way it works and that they have other considerations on their minds such as their budgets. And so to address the string fellow in a comprehensive way the way they should have done this during that time period is that they needed to reduce the level of liquid at the pond they should have popped them into a truck to be taken away and disposed of. But they didn’t do that and the reason they didn’t do that is it would have cost them extra money. And so they had budgetary constraints. They didn’t have money set aside for dealing with toxic chemical site. So we began to understand that there’s a lot of political decisions that take place that they have to consider that they look at where the biggest pressure is going to come. If they went after the 250+ major corporations for cleanup money then you know they’re going to get pushed back there so where’s the place we don’t, won’t get that big push back and it was the communities they don’t know. And so that started, once we began to understand how the system works what its priorities were and into consideration we began to realize you can’t just play by their rules because you’ll lose. So getting three minutes to speak in a hearing doesn’t change any bodies mind. And that you know if you only if that’s the only way you make your concern known that it’s not going to change anything. We came to realize that the decisions are not based on facts. They’re based on pressure. And so you know utilizing the press to be able to raise the issue to put what’s going on to the point of strong disability of attracting the public’s attention was really critical to getting any of the agencies to move on things, or corporations. And so those were lessons that we learned that I think are at the core of the work that we continue to do to this day.

Amanda: How did you deal with these (pressures) and make your movement successful?

Penny: Pressures from my personal life do you mean?

Amanda: yeah you were talking about how you have to utilize pressures so can you maybe tell us one success story or something similar?

Penny: On how we utilize pressure? Yeah we did a number of them. One of them we in about 1984 somewhere around there they discovered radiation at the site, it was in the groundwater in the community and the thing was really came to a head. People wouldn’t come into the community. We couldn’t use our water, nobody could tell us if it was okay to bathe in it. So nobody had answers for us and it was really very a stressful time. People in the community were coming in confused we couldn’t get any answers we couldn’t get any help. And so we started to pressure the governor, who’s not a particularly strong environmentalist. And so we thought well okay he’s the one who can give us what we need: we need a new water system. And we knew if we just asked for that we probably would get turned off pretty quickly so our demand was for him to meet to us. We needed to get to the governor in some way. He happened to be speaking in Riverside so we gathered about 100 or some people: women with babies, pregnant women, and old people with walkers and wheel chairs, just a big variety of people from the community. And we went down there and picketed his speaking engagement with the request that he meets with the residents to hear our concerns. We didn’t crash the event, because we didn’t want to alienate the group that had invited him. And so we stayed outside, 100 degrees heat. And just picketed it. And so the press were very insistent on what we were doing and so after the governor was finished speaking the first question from the report was are you going to meet these people out here and we were looking in through the window. And he said oh of course any time any place. And the reporter came out and said he’s willing to meet with you so we applauded him that we’re willing to work with him and make arrangements and really thanked him for being so considerate of us and listening to us. And so you know a week or two went by and of course there was nothing. So we called the reporter and one of the reporters and asked them if he had heard anything about the meeting and he said oh yeah I forgot about that I’ll call their office and find out. And so we started using the reporters as the go betweeners, our messenger, because we figured we couldn’t get too far in getting through to him or getting it to his attention. And so the reporter called, he became our go between, and he called me back and he said oh they said they’re working on it and they’re trying to get someone here in a couple weeks. And so another few weeks went by and we didn’t hear anything back and we called the reporter back and he said oh my god they haven’t called you back and so he called them and this time he called me back and said I’ve got good news: the governor is going to meet with you in Sacramento with another senator and have a talk with you. And I said oh well number one that’s not what we asked for it wasn’t for me to have a trip to Sacramento it was for him to come to meet the community. So we knew it was important to have everyone involved and just not one person. And we also knew that if he met with me he’d walk away saying I was to their concern and that was the end of it. And so we held out and told the reporter that day I’m busy but it’s also not what we asked for. And the reporter said you mean you’re turning down a meeting with the governor and I said yes I am. And so that made a story and it told the public that it was not what the community was asking for they want the governor to meet with the community for community concerns. And so it kind of went on for a few months. We got to one point we heard he was going to come to Riverside for a fund raiser. And so we had a contest, we bought two tickets for the fundraiser that was all we could afford, so we had a contest to figure out who could go, and it was who could look the most Republican. And so we put on all our jewelry and what not and I was one of them that one. And so two of us went down there and after the governor spoke and he’s working his way through the crowd shaking his hands and I walk my way up to him and grab hold of his hands …. Oh and so you have the TV cameras recording all of this and all of his aides are figuring out how do you extract this women from the governor. The governor, you could feel him trying to pull his hand away nonchalantly so it’s not obvious and I’m just holding on with all my might and you know I said I’m Penny Newman we need to talk. And we finally had a little conversation, the thing broke up. The next day we get a phone call we get a phone call from Senator Presley’s office that the governor is introducing a bill for a 17 million dollar for an incidental expenses at string fellows for a special fund set up that will help pay for the water and all. And the governor got back in his office and he told his staff I don’t know what you have to do but get these people off my back. And that was a big learning point for us: that you know we didn’t attend hearings or get 3 minutes or submit comments we took it outside to their arena where he isn’t as comfortable and isn’t as in control and then we made it our battle, not theirs. We made it public and we were persistent. And as a result we got something. And so everyone was hooked into a underwater system taken off of their private wells and that was a huge victory for us. To this day we still have our string fellow account. We have dedicated staff at that site and that fund has never been raided, as many funds have been from the state. So they know that the community will respond that it will be public and that it will be in a way that they can’t predict. And I think that’s a pretty good example of the way that we’ve worked over the last 35 years.

Anthony: Great thank you for sharing that example. So onto the next question: What would you say it takes to bring about social change at a local level?

Penny: Oh good question. I think its understanding communities. We’ve come to recognize that every person has their own unique skills and talents that they bring to the table. They have their own lived experiences. They have their own perspectives and that when you bring individuals into a group like that where people share those talent skills and history and experience perspectives, you really develop a rich, deep, group of knowledge. And that makes it very full of approach to solving a problem. So if you have a concern in a community and different people see it from different perspectives. So if you take a very narrow approach to it and you’re only seeing it from one perspective you’re only going to solve it from that one little niche. If you involve workers as well as children as well as adults and residents then you get a much fuller picture of what is going on and so your solution become much more in-depth much more holistic much more comprehensive. And so you actually see results happen. And it’s not this incremental steps that we seem to take so often in trying to address the issues. There could almost be like death by a thousand paper cuts- you never really get to solve the problem, you only make it a little less bad. And for community people that’s the kiss of death. I mean you’re not solving the immediate problem so we’ve come to look at it as developing leadership, taking the skills and talents that people have and having them grow them to their full potential so they have leadership in that arena that highlights their talents and skills but to also give them new experiences so they can see how their lived experiences, their knowledge, their skills can play out in different arenas. So we built this leadership. A lot of it is demystifying science, so that you can’t participate in what they like to term as very scientific, technical terms. So we do a lot and really in unravelling what they are talking about. Because you can’t participate in something if you don’t know the language, so that’s a key card in being able to play this game, is to really be able to demystify things. And develop workshops and training so that people help their ability to participate in the civic environment. So we’re developing individuals so that you have a community capacity that goes forward that never just one issue you’re dealing with especially in EJ communities. They’re targeted for all the bad stuff so you know you may defeat one project but another one is going to be showing up so you need to build over the long term that capacity and that is really key in building neighborhood wisdom and knowledge and keeping that going. So we do that, we identify the issues of concern to the community not what somebody else sees as the problem, but what does the community see and what do they want to address. And we look at solution that are developed by the people who are directly affected. And I think that’s a key piece to our success, is to really look at comprehensive changes, not the incremental and not the superficial. Sometimes it takes a little longer to get there but that’s really key to us. And then we always try to develop a policy from that experience so that we don’t have to fight that same battle over again and that other communities share in that victory and that you’re changing things on an institutional, systemic basis and not just piece mail. And one community benefitting from that. So we see the only way to advance our society is to make those institutional changes. I think it comes from the realization that the problem that communities of color and low income communities have is that the system does not work for them. And to just incrementally change that system doesn’t solve, it doesn’t benefit those communities so we really need to change the system at its very core in order to address the issues of inequity, racism, privilege and it goes beyond individual issues to the real core issues of why things are the way that they are. And in helping people to understand that. So part of that we’re looking at is people understanding the importance of voting, not because you have particularly candidates but that if you don’t play in the game, if you don’t voice your opinion, it’s not going to change. And so it’s a long term goal is to get people to in communities who’ve been ignored for so long to start voting and to start developing their own candidates to participate. And in doing that also develop a base of people. A voting block that can have an input in those elections. So just a little, it goes on a lot of different levels all at once. But that’s really how you make, not only how, local issue changes but also long term changes and building the movement of people. Did I answer the question for you?

Amanda; Yeah I think you answered it really well. I mean obviously you’ve been doing this work for decades but what would you say is the most rewarding thing about being an activist?

Penny: Hands down it’s such a privilege to get to hang out very courageous people. I mean here you have these individuals and families that come together, so a lot of them don’t speak the language, they don’t have privilege, nobody cares what they think, they don’t appear to have any power and they know this. Many of them know stepping forward puts them with a target on their back, and that they’re vulnerable. And yet, time and time again, they stand up to speak truth to power. And you know it’s a nice little catch phrase but what that means is that people are putting their lives, literally, on the line to stand up for what is right not just for them but for their neighbors, their families, and other communities. And I get to hang out with these people every day and it is such an inspiration. It’s just one of the benefits that keep me going. I’m just so inspired by their courage.

Anthony: Great that is most certainly inspiring. So what is something unexpected you’ve encountered in your career?

Penny: Boy. I always heard people saying about follow your dreams and I think what I’ve come to learn is that you can’t even dream some of the things that come into your lives. And so forget about trying to dream, take advantage of the opportunities that come before you. Be willing to take that step to have the courage to step out of your comfort zone and experience something. And so you know for me the things I’ve never dreamed I’d be doing or that I’ve been experienced have happened. I’ve got to go to Russia and got to work with community groups there. And experience, you know people I’ve been told all my life are our enemies and wanted to kill us because that was the great myth back there and to be there with these really terrific people. I also saw a very strange encounter of meeting people who looked just like me but not understanding a thing they were saying. Not being able to read any of the signs. Just being very strange, just something I’ve never thought about. I’ve had the opportunity to go to India with Vandid Nishiva and participate in the two week gathering of women of third world. And to hear stories from all over the world and I was the only one from the US was invited. I imagined they did quite a background check on me, too. So I was very honored to be included in that, it was a life changing moment to really see that here are the perspectives from what our country is doing and what other countries and what a strong influence we have both negatively and some positive, but mainly negative from around the world. And I think it was a shock for them to hear that our government treats many of our people the same way so they didn’t expect that. I got to go to Cuba and China and meet people who share very similar stories just in a little different setting. Very brave people. I got to sit down and talk with the students at Beijing University before Tiananmen Square and talk about their strategy and debate that took place about pulling or pushing the movement and what point are you pulling it too fast that it’s not strong and stable to take on the pressure, the hits back. And it was interesting after that short revolution and Tiananmen Square that I heard one of the students being interviewed he said we just moved too quickly we didn’t have the rural people behind us so we got separated because that is exactly what our discussion had been. So I had that opportunity of really getting to travel to some amazing places and meet some amazing people. I’ve worked around the country and gone into small communities and seen how they’re trying to fight back on issues. And just how talking through and helping them think through the process and still condition helps them find the route that will bring them success and I’ve gotten to be part of thousands and thousands of victories across the country. I’ve gotten to see that courage and phenomenal bravery that comes out in people everywhere, I mean it brings such feeling of optimism that despite watching what happens in Congress and the political arena that when you get down and out of that arena, when you get to where people are living the struggles that they’re taking up that there’s just such an amazing energy out there that makes you feel there is some hope for the future. I’ve gotten to be on TV over and over again. From the today show to Oprah Winfrey to Richard Simmons who you probably don’t know who that is. But all of these shows and interviews to be able to talk to people about how they can make change and I’ve gotten to be in with people who society views as important, like celebrities. I’ve played charades with Chevy Chase in the prop 65 bus tour with all the celebrities going up and down the State promoting prop 65 years ago. Those are the things I would never have thought of, haven’t dreamed or anything. It’s just opened up a world to me that I would never have been in. I’ve been in the White House numerous times. I’ve been on panels and decision making boards and all of that has opened up to me. But as I said I think that the greatest experiences for me are those that you find in these tiny little tabs that’re fighting the great big corporations and doing it in a way that they actually win.

Amanda: Thank you. That all sounds so amazing. I know there are many people my age, maybe even people who are hearing you for the first time that are aspiring activists. What recommendations would you give them?

Penny: To not let people tell you that you can’t do things. To follow your instincts. The thing that we all know when we’re in the wrong situation or when we’re around the wrong people or when we’re in a dangerous situation. We have those instincts. Most of the times we don’t follow. One of the things I’ve learned over time that benefits being an old lady now is that know my instincts. I know when something is telling me this isn’t right or this is the right way. To pay attention to listen to it and to follow that cause it will lead us in the right direction. I think so many people get caught up in the facts and the data and all that and we get away from understanding where we should be and what the right direction is. And I think that’s a skill we really need to work at. Not only understanding the facts to know what science is telling us what the data is telling us. But there are times that science hasn’t developed a way of determining those facts yet. And that our bodies our souls tell us where we should be. And we need to start listening to that more often.

Anthony: Great. Thank you for words thus far. As a question to wrap this up: do you have any last words of advice and or caution?

Penny: I guess it is that we need to understand that living in a civil society where we have people coming together means that we have to work out common rules, common understandings of how we do that. And they need to be based on fairness and equity. On an even playing field, so that everyone is participating in this society has the same opportunities to voice their opinions. I think we need to recognize that that is our right, a human right. And that it also carries a responsibility. So if you want your community wants it the way you feel it should be and the way it benefits your community and your family. That it’s a good quality of life for your family, you need to participate in the system that determines that because there are decisions being made that most of us don’t get to participate in that determines what your family is going to have to deal with. And so we are advocating our responsibilities. if we don’t figure out a way for us to participate, I mean us being communities of color, low income communities, those communities whom are oppressed, LGBTQ, those who are not treated fairly in this society. If we advocate our responsibility for participating it will not change. So all of us have to join together, crossing lines, the workers the residents all down the line to make the system work that benefits us all and I think once we understand that is our responsibility that if we want change that change has to come from us. We can’t look to somebody else to do it for us. It means all of us joining hands, all of us stepping forward and all of us challenging. That’s the only way we’re going to have the kind of society we want.